Talk:Hawking radiation

Per Dmitri Diakonov

According to the physicist Dmitri Diakonov, there was an argument between Zeldovich and Vladimir Gribov at the Zeldovich Moscow 1972-1973 seminar. Zeldovich believed that only a rotating black hole could emit radiation, while Gribov believed that even a non-rotating black hole emits radiation due to the laws of quantum mechanics.[10][11] This account is confirmed by Gribov's obituary in the Physics-Uspekhi by Vitaly Ginzburg and others.[12][13]

What to do with a bad reference?

The reference to kumar2012 is to an article in a predatory journal which is not representing standard physics. Some, though not all, of the information that gives this article as a citation is bad (eg the reference that asserts that Hawking radiation can be modeled as tunneling from inside the event horizon is nonsense, but some of the other information cited seems to be to accepted results. Should one cut the incorrect part but leave the rest? Or find alternative citations for the more accepted views? I am not a frequent contributor to Wikipedia, and I don't really understand the procedures. But I do assume one wants the article to reference only solid information.

Gribov's prior prediction of Hawking Radiation

Unfortunately, although we have no idea now what Gribov meant, the tiny bit reported in the referenced Memoirs makes no sense. Gribov's result appears to be an argument about what happens if the wavelength is much larger than the black hole size. It appears to assume that black holes are like normal objects like lumps of coal ( although a lump of coal at absolute zero does not radiate either). The Hawking process is very different. As in Hawking's calculation, the wavelength of outgoing radiation gets compressed near the horizon, and ultimately originates as ultra short wavelengths in the initial state of the system before the star collapses to form the black hole. It is by analysing this compression that Hawking discovered his effect. This has nothing to do with long wavelengths, or with what Gribov seemed to be talking about from the comment in the reference. There also exist statements that Feynman discovered the effect before Hawking, but again the context would seem to be that he may have discovered the Zeldovich-Starobinsky superradiance quantum effect at about the same time. In both cases the reporter seem to have not understood the Hawking effect, and misunderstood the argument they heard.

Ie, there is no evidence that Gribov ``discovered or even intuited the Hawking effect.

Note that Zeldovich had discovered the analogy of the Zeldovich-Starobinsky effect in a rotating cylindrical conductor, and certainly there there is no evidence of the the truth of Gribov's argument. A zero-temperature non-rotating conductor does not emit radiation, but a rotating one can.

Theory or Hypothesis?

"In scientific reasoning, a hypothesis is constructed before any applicable research has been done. A theory, on the other hand, is supported by evidence." It would seem to me that Hawking's concept is not a proper theory. No evidence supporting it has been collected. His 1974 "theoretical argument" for its existence should be labeled a "proposed argument". 74.127.200.55 (talk) 13:29, 17 December 2024 (UTC)