Category talk:Transgender people

Category Title

I notice this category was renamed from "Transsexuals" to "Transsexual men and women". However, I think a better name would be "Transsexual people" - for example, Kate Bornstein doesn't fit into a "men and women"-type category, but is definitely transsexual. Given the subject matter, isn't limiting this category to the gender binary unnecessarily exclusive, and possibly offensive to some people? --David Edgar 10:20, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

That usage is fine too. I don't quite understand what you mean by Kate Bornstein, but I think things that fit into non-strict gender roles falls into transgender some too? Maybe "transgender and transsexual people"? Dysprosia 10:26, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I just gave Kate Bornstein as an example of someone who doesn't fit the man/woman categories. (S/he defines herself as a 'gender outlaw' - neither man nor woman. Having had sex reassignment surgery, she's undoubtedly transsexual, however.)

Yes, "transgender and transsexual people" would be fine, but then why not just "transgender people" (or "transgendered people") (i.e. the category equivalent to the List of transgendered people) since this is generally used as a catch-all term.

Perhaps there could be a subcategory for transsexual people if this is useful.

--David Edgar 11:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It is very difficult to classify people as either transsexual or transgendered, especially, since formally, transsexual is a sub-category of transgender; although some transsexual people don't like "transgender". In all other articles, we solved this problem by writing "Transgender and transsexual". One can only classify people as "transsexual" if they classified themselves as transsexual and did so when the alternative transgender would have been available. Kate Bronstein is definitely wrongly classified under transsexual. I'd prefer if this category would be renamed as "Transgender people" but "Transgender and transsexual people" would be OK, too. I'll remove Kate Bornstein until this is resolved - because many transgender people are rather offended when classified as transsexual; and it is wrong, anyway. -- AlexR 14:34, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

No other problems with "Transgender and transsexual people"? I'll do the move if there's no other objections Dysprosia 05:29, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Like AlexR, I too prefer "Transgender people". --David Edgar 08:26, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Transgender and transsexual people makes sense, due to the obvious example of Kate Bornstein (and she isn't the only one). However, for the same reason that we're changing this from just mentioning transsexual to mentioning both, I strongly object to using just transgender people. We've had this argument before. There is a fair portion of transpeople who don't exactly like the transgender label. Ambivalenthysteria 09:46, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Point taken. Go with mentioning both. --David Edgar 13:36, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Now done - moved to Category:Transgender and transsexual people. And Kate Bornstein added again. --David Edgar 15:29, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! Dysprosia 02:10, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Pronoun usage?

I have a question as to the use of he or she to refer to people who have already undergone SRS? I would prefer (as I have been taught by the people I know who have gone through it) to use the pronoun so that it refers to their current physical gender (she for MtF post-ops, etc.). Does a policy alreayd exist on this? -Yupik 07:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Generally, it's just a matter of courtesy to call people their intended gender -- so, in most cases, people who have already had SRS would be called their current gender, since that is what they want to be. -VZG 05:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

That's what I'm used to, too. This article needs to be recleaned up to meet that standard. -Yupik 14:25, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Body modification?

Is the category for body modification really appropriate? Many transgender people do not pursue bodily modifications, so it seems like that category should be removed. Vis-a-visconti (talk) 11:38, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be better to separate this category into two?

Wouldn't it be better to divide this category into two: "Transgender and transsexual people" and "People who did a transition" (or something like this)? The fact is that the transition is made not only by transgender people but also by intersex people, as well as people who subsequently detransition... --HalfOfDwarf (talk) 14:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Category:People by gender

@Marcocapelle: the classification by gender (Q56022781) is not about genders alone, it doesn't imply it's merely/simply a gender. But as talked here, transgender is considered a gender identity too, and it's the item used in the sex or gender (P21) of Mocchi and Leslie Feinberg. This situation is analogous to agenderness. Is it a gender? --MikutoH ^talk! 01:10, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

• Transgender is not a gender, simply because the gender of transgender people is man, woman or non-binary. You could well argue that agender, or even non-binary as a whole, isn't a gender either, but that is at least a less obvious case than for transgender. The situation with transgender is comparable to intersex, which too is certainly not a gender.

The word "identity" is also problematic because many transgender people do not identify as such. That is comparable to gay people for whom the word "orientation" is more commonly used than "identity". That is of course not to say that I think transgender should be referred to as a "gender orientation" because nobody else uses that terminology. Transgender people just are transgender without an appropriate commonly used noun describing what sort of thing transgender is. The only very clear thing about it is that they fall under the umbrella of LGBT. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:21, 24 April 2024 (UTC)