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Good articleNational Football League has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 23, 2005Good article nomineeListed
March 4, 2006Good article reassessmentDelisted
January 3, 2009Good article nomineeNot listed
June 27, 2013Good article nomineeListed
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 20, 2019, August 20, 2020, and August 20, 2023.
Current status: Good article


Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2024

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Can someone please update the regular season section of the season format section of this page to include the 2023–24 NFL standings? Please. 2601:40A:8400:1820:75F2:A114:503F:13FC (talk) 22:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. GrayStorm(Talk|Contributions) 23:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The standings are stuck in 2021-22, which had already passed. That's why it needs to be updated. 2601:40A:8400:1820:75F2:A114:503F:13FC (talk) 23:35, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Change the term club back to team

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The is American football this is not soccer we did not use the term club. Every fan and every player also every owner reference there club as team. 2601:2C6:8400:DCF0:A6E7:21:B52A:912D (talk) 07:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this and have made the change, although another person then reverted it on the theory that the NFL uses "clubs." As anyone who edits Wikipedia knows, the league's usage is not controlling—the rule is to use the terminology most seen in common usage. I don’t see how anyone can seriously dispute that in American English the normal term is "teams," except perhaps among some soccer fans who persist in using other odd terminology like "kit" when they mean "uniform" and "match" when they mean "game." 1995hoo (talk) 01:02, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This has been "Club" for over a decade now, as a good article. The proper term is "Club". The league always uses this term when referring to the organizations. We need to be accurate when referring to things - it's not a matter of WP:COMMONNAME, it's a matter of basic accuracy. "Club", "franchise", "team" - all of these have meanings. Using them incorrectly can confuse, but more importantly, it's simply not accurate. "Club" is the organization itself, "franchise" is the slot in the league, and "team" is the actual team out on the field; see, for example, the Carolina Panthers website, where "Team" links to the roster listing. See, as an example, this recent NFLPA report, which uses "club" to refer to the organization and "team" to refer to the team on the field. Team and club are not the same thing. That being said - the article, as it is right now, is inconsistent in usage, and this should be corrected. Toa Nidhiki05 01:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It’s 10:00 at night, so I’m not going to think about it further tonight. But I believe your analysis, while "technically" accurate as a matter of word definitions, is unnecessarily hypertechnical because there is no doubt that the commonly used, and widely understood, term is "teams." No reader will be remotely confused by the use of "teams," which is also consistent with the usage in all the other North American major leagues' articles (even MLS, where I’d expect people to be militant about using British terminology). I sincerely doubt this word is even remotely relevant to good article status. 1995hoo (talk) 02:06, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not British terminology. It's the terminology the league uses, and has always used. There are exceptions - we don't call the "extra point" the "try", for example - but it's not like "club" is unknown. Toa Nidhiki05 02:16, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The NBA, NHL, MLB, and MLS pages all have a section titled Teams, not Clubs. So, using the definition that teams only refers to the actual players on the field, then shouldn't the other pages be updated too? After all, why should the NFL page be unique in this sense? Alielmi1207 (talk) 17:16, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with using "teams" as the common term. Overly technical pedantry is irrelevant in what word to use in the header, as it'll both are completely accurate. That is to say, even if we conceded a distinction between the organization and the playing squad, the material in the chart is applicable to both. Consistency with other major North American sports leagues should be maintained (yes, even the CFL uses "teams"). The fact that this gets changed periodically and is changed back by one editor tells me that there's some WP:OWN going on here. oknazevad (talk) 17:43, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It's not an accurate term. A handful of Wikipedia editors who genuinely do not know what they are talking about doesn't make a commonname. Toa Nidhiki05 22:48, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That is not an appropriate reply to charges of WP:OWN. If you look at the "Statements" section of WP:OWN, you'll see your statement smacks of the sort (that is, the sort—certainly not an exact match) of impermissible comments shown in examples 3 ("I'm an expert on the subject. If you have any suggestions, please put them in the talk page and I will review them.") and 6 ("I can see nothing wrong with the article and there is no need to change anything at all."). Your statement essentially boils down to, "I'm right on this issue and nobody else can change the article because I will revert it." I don't mean the following to sound rude, but your comments raise a question: Who, other than your own ipse dixit, says you know what you are talking about? 1995hoo (talk) 12:09, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, given your argument is "Toa is correct as a matter of fact but I think it should be teams anyway", I think you already have admitted I'm correct here, no? Toa Nidhiki05 13:30, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Practically every other sports league page has a section titled "Teams", not "Clubs", among them being the NBA, NHL, MLB, MLS, CFL, and WNBA. So, this page should be consistent with the others to avoid confusion. Alielmi1207 (talk) 06:16, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It doesn't matter what other pages say, or what other leagues call their organizations. Wikipedia's job is not to have a consistent word to apply to all leagues - it is to be accurate. And the accurate term here is "club". Toa Nidhiki05 13:34, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It seems that club may be the accurate term for soccer, as there are several teams with FC in their name (C for Club), and perhaps for hockey, as we now have the Utah Hockey Club, but not for football, since the former Redskins were known as the Washington Football Team for a couple years. Alielmi1207 (talk) 16:08, 7 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Toa Nidhiki05 If you refer to nfl.com, nba.com, nhl.com, and mlb.com, they all have a listing for "Teams" under their pull-down menu. Only mlssoccer.com refers to it as "Clubs". So, I don't understand how you're concluding that it should be "Clubs" for the NFL. Alielmi1207 (talk) 03:30, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It looks like we have a single editor displaying WP:OWN tendencies and potentially throwing borderline personal attacks (quote, " A handful of Wikipedia editors who genuinely do not know what they are talking about …"). You should feel free to change the article if you wish. 1995hoo (talk) 13:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You should refrain from personal attacks, especially when you’re objectively in the wrong on the matter. Toa Nidhiki05 16:30, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How can we be in the wrong when I have pointed out that the league's official website (www.nfl.com) refers to Teams and not Clubs? Would creating an RfC page to get others' opinions as well be sufficient in resolving this issue once and for all? Alielmi1207 (talk) 17:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The NFL Constitution and bylaws refer to them as "clubs", not teams, as cited in the article. The club is the organization, the team is the, well, team that the club fields. See Article 3:11 Section C on page 11:

The member club shall be held in a separate corporation, partnership, or trust (the “Football Company”), the primary purpose of which shall at all times be and remain the operation of a professional football team as a member club of the League, which such primary purpose shall not be changed, and the only material asset of which shall be the member club.

In other words: the league awards franchises to clubs, who field teams. The proper term for the organizations themselves are "clubs". Referring to the organizations themselves as "teams" is not accurate. The league is composed of clubs, not teams. Toa Nidhiki05 20:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Needlessly pedantic. The league publicly uses "teams" just as readily. Also, that is not unique to the NFL. The MLB and NHL constitutions also officially call their member organizations clubs (the NBA constitution uses "members"), yet those articles all use "teams" because the word is accurate for what the charts contain, as it does here.
Frankly, you being the sole person insisting on "club" repeatedly over the years when everyone else commenting has wanted to change it to "teams" to be consistent with other North American sports leagues has grown into obvious WP:OWN behavior. oknazevad (talk) 01:39, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It’s not pedantic to expect pages, especially good and featured articles, to be accurate - and “the NBA page says X” is not a good reason to be inaccurate. Toa Nidhiki05 05:33, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that the league constitution uses a word is not controlling either for Wikipedia purposes. The question is what verifiable, reliable sources use to refer to the organizations. That’s why I said once before that as a technical matter your preferred term is not incorrect—but on Wikipedia, the mere fact that something is "not wrong" does not make it the right, correct, or preferred term to use. This isn’t quite the same principle as the WP:COMMONNAME principle for naming an article, but it’s close. (Let me also add: I think the article's text distinguishes between "clubs," "franchises," and "teams" in fairly high detail. Given that distinction, there is no need for the heading to use the soccer-ism.) 1995hoo (talk) 11:45, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not just the league constitution, it's the league itself, which consistently refers to the organizations as "clubs". It's not a "soccer-ism" - it's literally what they're called. I'm genuinely bewildered you seem so internet on replacing correct verbiage with incorrect verbiage. Toa Nidhiki05 12:48, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not "incorrect verbiage" at all. As I assume you know quite well, Wikipedia does not necessarily use what a particular organization might deem "official." Wikipedia uses the verifiable most common name for things (thus, for example, Wikipedia consensus is to use "Stanley Cup Finals," rather than the NHL's odd "Stanley Cup Final," because the former is the prevailing term in media reports about that competition). The most common word used to refer to the member organizations of a sports league in North America is "teams," with the exception of by some soccer fans who think they need to use Britishisms for everything and so use weird words like "kit" when they mean to say "uniform," etc. Let me emphasize that I have no quibble with the text of the article referring to the 32 "clubs"—I think the section's text explains it quite well (although this morning I was staring at it thinking the sentence or two about roster size is in the wrong place and should be moved to a location that is not yet apparent to me). My quibble is only with the section heading itself—which, of course, is intended more as an outline-type guidepost to help a reader find material and is more in the nature of a summary. 1995hoo (talk) 13:03, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why you keep calling this a "soccer-ism" when it, in fact, predates soccer. Maybe you should do some more research on the history of American football. This term has been in use forever in American football. As it stands, all you've effectively done is added incorrect terminology because you personally think "club" sounds like a soccer term. Toa Nidhiki05 13:18, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see no point in responding further. We've both made our positions clear; it's also clear (1) that we both believe the other is wrong and (2) neither of us will change the other's mind. Have a nice rest of the day. 1995hoo (talk) 13:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be tagging the section as inaccurate, given your lack of interest in dialogue. Toa Nidhiki05 14:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pot meet kettle. ~~ Jessintime (talk) 14:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I saw your edit summary claiming I'm "irrational." Quit it with the personal attacks. You're entitled to hold that opinion, but you are not entitled to express it that way. 1995hoo (talk) 14:48, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Toa, we understand that "club" is the official term per the NFL (you provided the league's constitution as evidence). We don't need to argue that point any further. In addition, as stated previously "The MLB and NHL constitutions also officially call their member organizations clubs (the NBA constitution uses "members")". I would venture to guess that the MLS constitution also uses the term "club". So, we're not arguing the accuracy of the term, but just trying to be consistent with other North American sports leagues' wiki pages. I'm curious, if you're so adamant that the NFL page state "club", then why are you not advocating the same for the other pages? Alielmi1207 (talk) 14:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't matter what other pages say. And frankly, I'm not interested in those sports, nor have I researched them. What I am interested in is ensuring this article is accurate. "Franchise" is definitely better than "team", although strictly speaking "franchise" refers only to the league's authorization for a club to have a team in the league. Toa Nidhiki05 15:18, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Most colloquial articles will use "team" because they are referring to the team on the field. But that's not accurate to refer to the organization itself. See:
  • The league constitution (cited above)
  • The league's record and fact book (figures in charge of clubs are referred to as "club officials"; the word "club" is used over 120 times)
  • What we're talking about in this section are the organizations. Not the players on the field (team), or the authorization (franchise). I don't see a reason to not use the most accurate terminology. Toa Nidhiki05 15:28, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your own link actually helps to establish my point. The league record book sorts stats by franchise, which is overwhelming the WP:COMMONNAME / common term used to refer to them. Sure, the NFL may use the word club sometimes, but do you have sources aside from them that also do so? I could find thousands of reliable sources that overwhelmingly use team/franchise to refer to the organization. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:33, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Toa Nidhiki05: Not even counting news stories, which would demonstrate an overwhelming and unquestionable common usage of team / franchise over "clubs", here's a list of static pages that a number of common sites use:
While I expect it to change now that I've pointed it out, the 8 relevant search terms for NFL clubs on Wikipedia haven't even been created: National Football League club, National Football League clubs, National Football League Club, National Football League Clubs, NFL Clubs, NFL clubs, NFL Club, NFL club.
Do I need to keep going and compile a list of a thousand RS stories stories that overwhelmingly use team or franchise instead of club to prove that it's the common name and that that's what should be used in the article? Hey man im josh (talk) 16:12, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per sources and reasoning provided by Hey man im josh. Sorry but I've never heard anyone call an NFL team a club before, besides at this article. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 18:02, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support calling NFL franchises "teams" and not "clubs", which is not used as commonly in North American sports (if at all). Hey man im josh's sources pretty much showed "franchise" and "organization" being way more common than club, so where is the WP:COMMONNAME support coming from? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:57, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - The arguments that the term "club" is not used in relation to NFL teams are absolutely wrong. There's even a quote in the article from Roger Goodell where he uses the term "club". However, this term is not in common use in NFL media and certainly not in colloquial parlance. There are some cases where using the term "club" is appropriate, but not to the extent currently employed in the article. "Team" or "franchise" should be the terms most commonly used, but "club" shouldn't be removed altogether as long it's being used appropriately. – PeeJay 14:14, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • It seems like the discussion has stalled out now. @Toa Nidhiki05, are you willing to accept that there's a general consensus to use team/franchise in place of club, despite the NFL occasionally referring to the franchises as clubs? I ask just so that we can move forward. Hey man im josh (talk) 23:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I mean, does it matter whether I accept it or not? It's going to happen anyway, clearly.. Toa Nidhiki05 00:35, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Toa Nidhiki05: It kind of does matter. It's a discussion, one in which we're trying to come to a conclusion on how to edit the article. At the end of the day, you could drag it out based on the status quo and push further, presenting evidence for your point of view. But, based on your lack of response, I sort of thought maybe you were begrudgingly accepting it's viewed as a common name, even if you don't personally agree that's how it should be (been there and felt the same on other stuff as well). I appreciate your contributions and I wanted to be respectful about it instead of trying to steamroll ahead with changes or something. Hey man im josh (talk) 01:23, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's clear that editors want to refer to them as something else, it's not like I'm going to edit war and stop it. I'm not going to be happy about it, and I don't think using incorrect terminology on a Good Article is a great idea, but it's clear that editors prefer referring to clubs as franchises or teams. Of the other two terms, franchise is probably more accurate. But given how clearly lopsided the discussion is, you really don't need my approval here. Toa Nidhiki05 01:36, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

NFL Sunday Ticket lawsuit

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Should NFL Sunday Ticket lawsuit be mentioned here? It's mentioned on NFL Sunday Ticket but given that NFL could potentially have to pay $4B, seems significant enough to mention here. https://frontofficesports.com/nfl-sunday-ticket-trial-jury-ruling/ Sawitontwitter (talk) 12:59, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is the NFL an independent source for an article about a player?

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See Wikipedia_talk:Main_Page/Errors#Independent_sources, for a discussion about this.

2603:7000:2101:AA00:F804:C954:1D4C:5D11 (talk) 22:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Packers were a founding team for the NFL get it right

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the Packers were the first team to join the nfl Alexvanderwoude (talk) 01:12, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, that's not correct. The league started in 1920, but the Packers did not join until 1921. They were preceded by the Chicago Cardinals (now Arizona Cardinals) and the Decatur Staleys (now Chicago Bears). Please refer to Timeline of the National Football League Alielmi1207 (talk) 03:57, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Timeouts on TV

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Can we please make it consistent how the timeout show on the TV screen during NFL games. I’m tired of searching for where the timeouts are located on the screen. Please make this a uniform indication on all networks. 47.185.112.68 (talk) 02:24, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is highly unlikely that any network's visual effects teams will see your request here, sorry. This is for discussing the Wikipedia article about the NFL. Useight (talk) 04:29, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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